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Choreography 
  1.  
    <anything> and Circle 1/4
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I'm having problems with 'anything & Circle 1/4'.

    Heads Pass The Ocean
    Switch The Wave and Circle 1/4

    It puts up the "enter snapshot" window. BUT... say I commit a typo, and put 2 spaces in front of switch the wave, like so:

    Heads Pass The Ocean
         Switch The Wave and Circle 1/4

    then IT CAN DO IT!

    Of course, I committed the typo first, edited the text to fix it, then it couldn't find the record.

    Okay, this one takes some explanation...

    Heads Pass The Ocean
    Switch The Wave & Circle 1/4

    The program can't do this because of how you have global flags checked. From the main menu, under 'Other' then 'Option flags' then 'Call execution' you have the following:

        Try center 4 (not checked)
        Reset actives after each line (checked)

    Changing the status of either of these should make the above choreography work. However, for your style of choreography, I suggest that you do not change these flags or else you will find lots of other 'bugs' to report.

    The reason that the program couldn't do the call is:

    Line 1: Heads Pass The Ocean --- it did this fine.

    Line 2: Switch The Wave & Circle 1/4 --- The program does not know how to do Switch The Wave from a 1/4 Tag. If you had 'Try center 4' checked, the program would try 'Center 4 Switch The Wave' & it would be able to do the call. If you had 'Reset actives after each line' not checked, the program would retain the active status of the Heads since they just did the Pass The Ocean, hence it would try to have the Heads do the next call (i.e., Switch The Wave), & again the program would be able to do the call.

    The problem of course lies in cases such as 'Trade & Circle 1/4'. Do just the Centers do the Trade then all Circle 1/4, or does everyone do the Trade and all Circle 1/4.

    My solution to this problem is:

    Heads Pass The Ocean
    Centers Switch The Wave & Circle 1/4

    Okay, now I will explain why the second case works, namely

    Heads Pass The Ocean
       Switch The Wave & Circle 1/4

    This works because the program considers an indented line to be a continuation of the previous line. The program concatenates the indented line onto the previous line. Hence the above choreography is equivalent to:

    Heads Pass The Ocean & Switch The Wave & Circle 1/4

    so the program does a Heads Pass The Ocean (and since they are still active) Heads Switch The Wave and then all (since 'Circle 1/4' is an 8-dancer call) Circle 1/4.

    last modified: 25-May-2011   
  2.  
    Beaus Run 1 & 1/2
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    From a left hand 3/4 line:

    Lines Beaus Run 1 & 1/2 Thru

    CSDS is massively confused and I don't know how to de-confuse it.

    Sorry about that, but a snapshot record must be entered for "Beaus Run 1 & 1/2".
    1. Go to the spot before the call is executed;
    2. From the menu, select Flags | Set all Flags;
    3. Try to execute the call (press the Enter key or F12);
    4. When the 'call not found' screen appears, click 'Process or add'.
    5. Add the call;
    6. Clear the flags.

    Beaus Run 1 & 1/2 is problematic for CSDS. Does it mean "Beaus Run" then "1/2 Beaus Run", or do you identify the Beaus and then have them Run 1 & 1/2? Interesting problem because normally if we do a call 1 & 1/2, we re-evalutate after doing it once.

  3.  
    Boys Courtesy Turn The Girls
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    I have a Double Pass Thru formation with the four girls in the centre. I have the Girls Pass Thru, then I want the Boys to Courtesy Turn them. In the Abbreviations database, you have Courtesy Turn Ahead, but when I try that, I get a "token not recognized" type of message.

    Try "Boys Courtesy Turn The Girls"

    e.g.,
    Heads Star Thru,
    Double Pass Thru,
    Centers In, Cast Off 3/4,
    Pass Thru,
    Wheel & Deal,
    Girls Square Thru 3,
    Boys Courtesy Turn The Girls,
    Flutter Wheel,
    Square Thru 3,
    L.A.

    last modified: 27-February-2024   
  4.  
    Breathing problem - Ending on the same spot
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    From Tidal 3x1 Lines where the ends of each line are facing the same direction if I type in the call 'Lockit' the program ends in parallel waves where I would expect paralellograms - why is this?

    The data in the snapshot database is incorrect.

    To fix the problem you must edit the two 'bad' snapshot records containing Lockit. In the 'after' picture, you need to move all dancers down one full position.

    To do this, start a new sequence (e.g., Heads Wheel Thru; Pass The Ocean; Very Centers U-Turn Back; all Lockit). After the program incorrectly does a Lockit, press Ctrl+S (or from the menu, select View | Last snapshot record used). Then edit the record (Ctrl+E or Edit | Edit data) and drag each dancer in the 'After' picture one full spot downward from their current location. (It might be that you need to drag all dancers upward, or to the left, or to the right, depending upon which dancer collide on the lockit). Then save the changes made to the record. Go back to the sequence being created, and press F11 followed by F12. The dancers should now be in the correct positions.

    When editing the 'Lockit' snapshot records for the instances in which dancers end sharing a spot, you also need to set the 'Priority' (upper R-H corner) to 'Same-spot'. Otherwise, if you do a Lockit that involves Phantoms, unexpected positioning might occur.

    There were two occurrences of this problem for Lockit in my snapshot database. You should fix both of them in yours (e.g., do the steps in the above paragraph but replace Pass The Ocean with Pass The Sea).

    This problem has been fixed within the master copy of the snapshot database.

  5.  
    Breathing problem - Phantom two-dancer calls
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I tried the following:

    Heads Wheel Thru
    Pass Thru
    Triple Box Pass In
    Triple Box Pass Thru

    The outside dancers did a Pass Thru but moved laterally one space (so there were two spaces between them and the center dancers).

    If I eliminate the Triple Box on the last Pass Thru, the dancers Pass Thru as expected.

    Is this indicative of some subtlety on triple boxes that I don't know about? Or is it a bug?

    When a concept involving Phantoms is used, the program occasionally uses the 'incorrect' snapshot record (this can be fixed by editing the offending snapshot record as explained below). The program correctly executed 'Pass Thru' without 'Triple Box' because no phantoms were involved.

    The problem is that more than one snapshot record 'matched' the phantom position. Since the program couldn't determine which snapshot record was correct, it used the first one that it encountered.

    Pass Thru can be done from either Facing Dancers or a Right-Hand Mini-Wave. Since phantoms are, by definition, facing in whatever direction is necessary to do the next call, the program incorrectly used the Right-Hand Mini-Wave version of Pass Thru since that was the first record it encountered when searching the snapshot database.

    Because Pass Thru from a Right-Hand Mini-Wave is not the 'normal' starting position for Pass Thru, this information needs to be conveyed to the program. This is done by changing the 'Priority' field of the snapshot record to something other than 'Normal'. The program will then select the Facing Dancer version of Pass Thru over the R-H Mini-Wave version whenever it has a choice.

    To fix this particular problem:

    1. Edit the sequence, and position the dancers (using F1, F2, etc) so that the dancers are after the 'Triple Box Pass Thru'.
    2. From the menu, select 'View' followed by 'Last snapshot record used' (or type Ctrl+S).
    3. Change the priority from 'Normal' to 'T-Bone'.
    4. Exit the 'Edit Snapshot' screen.
    5. Press 'F1' to backup one call, then press 'F2' to advance one call.

    The problem should go away.

    This particular instance of this problem has been fixed in the my master snapshot database.

  6.  
    Chase Right But
    Top of page Bottom of page
    In the sequence
    Heads Lead Right
    Circle to a Line
    Chase Right but Boys when you meet Swing Thru
    I have no idea how to say it without "missing token". Can you help me ?

    First, I'd suggest a Pass Thru prior to the Chase Right.

    Enter this sequence into CSDS as either:

    1. Heads Lead Right,
      Circle To A Line,
      Pass Thru,
      Chase Right But Swing Thru

    OR

    1. Heads Lead Right,
      Circle To A Line,
      Pass Thru,
      Chase Right But Boys (When You Meet) Swing Thru

    That is, put 'When You Meet' in parentheses. 'Boys' is optional.

    last modified: 22-March-2007   
  7.  
    Choreo updates overwritten
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    Is there anyway that you can have your choreo updates not override the highlights on previous sequences. I have used the "$ - - - $" and % - - - % on all the programs I call for teaching purposes. When I updated a sequence set last week it removed all the highlighting. Is there anyway to continue getting the updates but not overwrite the highlights?

    This has also been resolved.

    You must not modify the first line of each sequence (e.g., '((2998))((Vic Ceder)),'). Don't delete it, since the program uses the number to determine which sequences match.

    To upgrade a web database that you've modified (by adding % and $),

    1. download the new database from the web;
    2. go to 'Sequence | Import sequence(s)';
    3. set the 'source database' to the downloaded database;
    4. set the 'destination database' to the database to update;
    5. make sure that 'type of source file' is 'sequence database';
    6. press the 'OK' button.

    last modified: 26-March-2007   
  8.  
    Circular choreography
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    I would to do this (from a Static Set)
    Allemande left to an allemande thar ...
    Shoot the star ...
    Forward 2 ...
    Allemande thar ...
    Shoot the star full turn ...
    Dixie grand ...
    

    I can make the programme execute the first 2 lines, but how do I proceed?

    The following will work:

    Allemande Left To An Allemande Thar,
    Shoot The Star Go Forward 2 To An Allemande Thar,
    Shoot The Star Full Turn,
    Dixie Grand,
    Allemande Left
    

    The 'trick' is that 'Shoot The Star Go Forward 2 To An Allemande Thar' must be placed all on one line.

    If you just put 'Shoot The Star' on one line, then put 'Go Forward 2' on the next, the program does not know what to do since it lost the handedness of the formation.

    last modified: 26-March-2007   
  9.  
    Courtesy Turn
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    I have a Double Pass Thru formation with the four girls in the centre. I have the Girls Pass Thru, then I want the Boys to Courtesy Turn them. In the Abbreviations database, you have Courtesy Turn Ahead, but when I try that, I get a "token not recognized" type of message.

    Try "Boys Courtesy Turn The Girls"

    e.g.,

    Heads Star Thru,
    Double Pass Thru,
    Centers In, Cast Off 3/4,
    Pass Thru,
    Wheel & Deal,
    Girls Square Thru 3,
    Boys Courtesy Turn The Girls,
    Flutter Wheel,
    Square Thru 3,
    L.A.

    last modified: 04-November-2014   
  10.  
    Cross Concentric
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Heads Wheel Thru,
    Swing Thru,
    1/2 Circulate,
    Cross Concentric Explode The Wave
    

    All Cross Concentric calls that I tried from this formation involving change of axis did not put the original centers at the ends of the correct axis. The same Concentric calls worked properly.

    The calls I tried were:
    Explode The Wave, Recycle, Single Hinge, and Linear Cycle.

    The program executes the Cross Concentric calls as designed.

    On cross concentric, if the original center 4 end in a 2x2, they end perpendicular to "their" long axis. They determine their long axis by looking at their 4-dancer formation. If the center 4 start in a 2x2, they look at the long axis of the overall 8-dancer formation.

    The reason this is the case is because it is a "more consistent" definition, and allows Cross Concentric to be used from formations in which there is no long axis (e.g., from a Butterfly-like formation after the Centers Recycle and somehow the outsides adjust so that they are all the exact same distance from the center of the set. In this case, there is no long axis for the 8-dancer formation, but there is for the center formation of 4).

    This is consistent with the Cross Concentric article by Linda Kendall that appeared in the Zip Coder magazine several years ago.

    You'll notice that this is also consistent with our diagrams in our Ceder Chest: http://www.ceder.net/def/crossconcentric.php

    last modified: 21-October-2008   
  11.  
    Crossfire
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    When I write a sequence with Crossfire from Out-Facing Lines, the program tells me that the resulting formation is a beginning Double Pass Thru formation. I would have expected a Quarter Tag formation. Am I wrong - or is the program?

    Please see the following:

    1. Our definition of Crossfire at http://www.ceder.net/def/crossfire.php
    2. The "Crossfire Controversy", a paper that I've written to explain the "problem" at http://www.ceder.net/def/crossfire_controversy.php

    If you believe that Crossfire from Out-Facing Lines ends in a 1/4 Tag, you can add a snapshot record to that effect.

    To add a snapshot record so that Crossfire from Out-Facing Lines ends in a 1/4 Tag formation do the following:

    1. Start CSDS;
    2. Select 'Sequence | New Sequence [Graphics]';
    3. Select any sequence database that starts from a Squared Set, and click 'OK';
    4. Enter the following 3 lines:
      Heads Star Thru & Spread
      All Pass Thru
      Crossfire
      The displayed ending formation should be a Starting DPT.
    5. Select 'Flags | Set all Flags';
    6. Press F11, then press F12. This un-executes one line, then re-executes it with all flags set. The 'Call Not Found, Add It?' window should appear, with the dancers in Out-Facing Lines.
    7. Press the 'Process or Add' button. The 'Edit Snapshot Record' window appears, which allows you to define Crossfire from Out-Facing Lines.
    8. Using the mouse, drag the dancers to their ending positions (i.e., click the left mouse button and hold it down and move the mouse, release the button when the dancer is in the correct ending spot), set the dancer's facing direction (right-click the mouse within the square box near the place where the dancer's nose should be -- or -- use the radio buttons in the lower-left side of the screen), and set their roll attribute (lower-right side of screen) if desired (only the original Ends can Roll after a Crossfire).
    9. After all dancers have been appropriately positioned, close the window (via the 'X' in the upper right corner, or via 'Edit | Close')
    10. A confirmation dialog box appears. Click 'Yes'.
    11. The 'Call Not Found, Add It?' dialog box reappears.
    12. VERY IMPORTANT: Click the 'Clear all' button (under the selected blue flags);
    13. Now click the 'OK' button in the 'Exit' section.
    14. The displayed ending formation should now be a 1/4 Tag formation!!!
    15. Congratulations! You have just created a snapshot record.
    16. If the snapshot record just created was incorrect, you can delete it or edit it as follows:
      1. Select 'View | Last snapshot record used';
      2. Then select 'Edit | Toggle Delete' to delete the record;
        or select 'Edit | Data' to edit the record.

  12.  
    Entering a Call
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I have a question about entering a call. I have the following situation.

    Zero Line - Pass The Ocean - Single Hinge- Centres Walk & Dodge:

    From here I want to call "Girls Work As Couples, (All) Cast A Shadow".

    The program trips over this entry. Is there a way to enter this currently, or should I use the "Call Not Found -- Add It?" function to tell it what I want?

    Yes, you will need to enter a new snapshot.

    Please remove the word "All" out of parentheses, as future versions Of CSDS might require this. (e.g., use "Girls Work As Couples All Cast A Shadow")

    When you get to the "Call Not Found, Add It" window, Do the following:

    1. The token list (upper R-H corner) will say "Girls BEING OWNED", so press the "8 Dancers" button (lower right) to sequence to the next possibility with 8 dancers.
    2. The token list should now read correctly. Press the "Process or Add" button to enter a new snapshot.
    3. Using the mouse (left click and hold) drag a dancer to their ending position, then right-click once within the dancer icon near where you want their facing direction.
    4. Repeat step 4 until all dancers have been moved.
    5. If you desire, you can set the "Roll" attribute of the Head Man to "Right".
    6. When done, close the window. You will be prompted whether to "Save changes to record". Answer "Yes".
    7. The "Enter Mirror Name of Call" window appears. Since it's the same name, click "OK" to proceed.
    8. You've been returned to the "Call Not Found, Add It" window. Press the "OK" button to exit.

    last modified: 15-May-2016   
  13.  
    Explode the Top turn the star 1/4 more/less
    Top of page Bottom of page
    How do I enter Explode the Top turn the star 1/4 more or whatever?

    This is a parsing problem. The program currently allows the following ways of saying it:

    • Explode The Top Star 1 Less Than Normal
    • Explode The Top Star 1 More Than Normal
    • Explode The Top Star 2 More Than Normal

    Since I don't use these variations, you may have to enter snapshot records for some instances.

    If you have other ways of phrasing the call, let me know, and I'll add them to the parse database.

    Note: I have recently added "Explode the Top turn the star 1/4 More/Less".

    last modified: 21-August-2006   
  14.  
    Fold
    Top of page Bottom of page
    From Parallel Waves with the Boys as Leaders...

    When Boys Fold is done from this position how can we get the formation to adjust to call next call like "Double Pass Thru"?

    Fold is a problematic call for the program. The problem is that there are two kinds of Folds: an adjusting Fold, and a non-adjusting Fold.

    You should just be able to call "Double Pass Thru" for the next call, and the program will do it properly.

  15.  
    From Diamonds, Outsides Face In
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I was trying to do something on your program and maybe I wasn't wording it right. I had the dancers in a diamond formation and want those dancer outside (not in the wave) to face in so I could make the other dancers extend. I said outside and ends, what is the proper word for me to use?

    Whenever you have a choreo question or 'how to word it' question, it's best to give me the entire sequence, so I have a clue as to what the problem is.

    From Twin Diamonds, 'Points', 'Outsides', and 'Ends' are all equivalent.

    Any of the following should work:

    1. Heads Lead Right,
      Touch 1/4,
      Centers Hinge,
      Points Face In
    2. Heads Lead Right,
      Touch 1/4,
      Centers Hinge,
      Outsides Face In
    3. Heads Lead Right,
      Touch 1/4,
      Centers Hinge,
      Ends Face In

    Personally, I prefer the term 'Outsides'.

    In CSDS, Outsides designates the 4 dancers furthest from the center of the set.

    From some formations, the term 'Ends' can be ambiguous. For example, from a Tidal Wave: Ends Trade. Do the Outside 4 Trade, or do the Ends of each Wave trade?

  16.  
    Getin Database
    Top of page Bottom of page
    It appears you have a database of "getins". But when I am writing a sequence, how do I get it to suggest a getin? I see there is a menu item "Find", from which I can search for calls, or I can search for resolves (getouts), and it looks like the intention is that I can search for getins: there is a grayed-out menu item named Getins. Am I supposed to be able to use this? Or am I supposed to get this some other way?

    There is no way to suggest a getin, other than 'Find | Calls (via Prefix + Call)', and check the 'Try "heads" if squared set' checkbox.

    The getin database is quite sparse compared to the getout database.

    Other than generating opening biggies, the getin database is used for substitution purposes.

    For instance, suppose you have the following sequence:

       Heads Wheel Thru,
       Swing Thru,
       Ah So,
       Grand 1/4 Thru,
       Recycle,
       Pass Thru,
       Barrel Of Fun,
       R.L.G.

    It's basically an opening biggie that is too big. What you'd like to do is replace the junk at the beginning with a set of fewer calls.

    To do this, edit the sequence [graphics mode], and use the <<,<,>,>> buttons so that part of the sequence is in the upper buffer, and part is in the lower (edit) buffer.

    For instance, if the upper buffer contains:
       Heads Wheel Thru,
       Swing Thru,
       Ah So,
       Grand 1/4 Thru,
       Recycle,
    And the lower buffer contains:
       Pass Thru
       Barrel Of Fun
       R.L.G.
    You can select 'Find | Getin', and it will display a set of getins that you can replace the first 5 calls with. You can then select an alternate getin, such as:
       Heads Box The Gnat,
       Split Right On 3,
    And you've got a shorter sequence:

       Heads Box The Gnat,
       Split Right On 3,
       Pass Thru,
       Barrel Of Fun,
       R.L.G.

    Tah-dah!

    last modified: 26-December-2007   
  17.  
    Go Forward Two
    Top of page Bottom of page
    How does one get CSDS to parse
    Allemande Left to an Allemande Thar
    Shoot the Star forward 2
    Boys swing in to an Allemenade Thar
    

    1. Allemande Left To An Allemande Thar,
    2. Shoot The Star Go Forward Two To An Allemande Thar

    Two lines. "Boys swing in" is not part of the call.

    last modified: 29-April-2011   
  18.  
    How do I find where a call can be done?
    Top of page Bottom of page
    How can I find out from where a certain call is accepted by the program, for example all formations for Grand Right and Left, Allemande Left, Promenade etc. ?

    You can search the snapshot database for the given call. I.e.,
    1. starting from the CSDS main menu, select 'Snapshot | View a record';
    2. from the 'View Snapshot' window, select 'Find | Find a record';
    3. in the 'Find Snapshot Record' dialog box, click on the 'Exact Match' tab and enter a call such as 'Grand Right and Left';
    4. click 'OK' to exit the dialog box and start the search. The first record with the given call should appear;
    5. Press 'F3' (Find Next) or 'Ctrl+F3' (Find Previous) to navigate between instances of the call.

    Note #1: for calls that require less than 8 dancers to do the call (e.g., Right & Left Thru), the snapshot database only contains the call from positions with the minimal number of dancers (for Right & Left Thru, there are 3 snapshot records: 1) from Facing Couples; 2) from a R-H Wave; and 3) from a hybrid Facing Couples / R-H Wave.). The program uses these 3 records to extrapolate the call to be done from Eight Chain Thru, Facing Lines, R-H Tidal Wave, etc.

    Note #2: some 4-dancer calls (usually box-to-box calls such as Single Checkmate, Shake & Rattle, Swap Around, etc.) are hardcoded into the program, and do not have any snapshot records. This is also the case with calls such as Press, Loop, Truck, Curve, etc.

  19.  
    Interrupt Scoot & Plenty
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I am working on sequences with SCOOT AND PLENTY - I have no problem with SCOOT AND PLENTY REPLACE THE BOX CIRCULATES WITH .......... , but I can't get INTERRUPT THE BOX CIRCULATES WITH ......... to work

    Can you point me in the right direction?

    Try

    Heads Pass The Ocean,
    Scoot & Plenty Interrupt Before The Split Circulates With A Swing The Fractions

    or

    Heads Pass The Ocean,
    Scoot & Plenty Interrupt After The Split Circulates With A 2/3 Recycle

    The syntax is:

    Scoot & Plenty Interrupt (Before | After) The Split Circulates With <anything>

  20.  
    Interrupts, Replaces, Prefers
    Top of page Bottom of page
    When I am writing sequences, how do I handle Interrupts, Replaces, Prefers, etc.?

    e.g. "PASS & ROLL, BUT REPLACE THE LAST PASS THRU WITH A SWING THRU"
    or
    "SCOOT & PLENTY, BUT REPLACE THE 2 SPLIT CIRCULATES WITH 2 INROLL CIRCULATES"
    etc.?

    Do I create a new entry for each variation?

    Any ideas you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

    First a side comment: I suggest you say 'REPLACE' instead of 'BUT REPLACE', as the program is more likely to corrrectly parse the call.

    CSDS does not (currently) know how to do 'Ignore' and 'Prefer'. Each instance of these will have to be entered as a separate snapshot.

    CSDS is weak on it's implementation of 'Replace' and 'Interrupt'. Most likely, most instances will have to be entered.

    CSDS should be able to do the following:

    • (INTERLOCKED) (SCOOT &) PLENTY REPLACE THE STARS WITH <anything>
    • (INTERLOCKED) (SCOOT &) PLENTY INTERRUPT BEFORE|AFTER THE BOX CIRCULATES WITH <anything>
    • ALTER THE WAVE, 1/4 THE ALTER, 3/4 THE ALTER, ALTER & CIRCULATE followed by
      1. REPLACE TURN THE DIAMOND WITH <anything>
      2. INTERRUPT BEFORE|AFTER TURN THE DIAMOND WITH <anything>

  21.  
    Is Fan The Top legal from a Diamond?
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Is Fan the Top legal from diamond? It doesn't seem to fit the Callerlab definition but the CSDS choreography system allows it. What are your thoughts on this?

    Yes, Fan the Top from a Diamond (with the Centers in a Mini-Wave) is legal. It is commonly used at Challenge.

    Our Fan The Top definition: http://www.ceder.net/def/fanthetop.php

    To view all formations from which Fan The Top can be used in CSDS, do the following:

    1. Start CSDS;
    2. From the CSDS menu, select 'Snapshot | View a record';
    3. From the new screen's menu, select 'Find | Find All';
    4. Check the uppermost checkbox only (F1 Exact Call). No other checkboxes should be checked.
    5. Enter 'Fan the Top' into the edit box, then press the 'OK' button at the bottom.

    This will generate a listing of all possible formations that CSDS knows how to do a fan the top. Since Fan the Top is generally a 4-dancer call, 8-dancer versions of the 4-dancer call are omitted, as they are extrapolated (e.g., you will not find a Tidal Wave Fan The Top). Also, mirror image versions of the call are also omitted, since they too can be extrapolated.

    The before and after pictures are shown on the right side, and you can use cursor keys to navigate thru the list.

    last modified: 29-April-2020   
  22.  
    Like A Ripple
    Top of page Bottom of page
    What is the correct terminology for using the call "Like A Ripple".

    From a standard Ocean Wave with men on the ends...I would like to use the call Head boys like a ripple: run, trade and kick off.

    How would I enter it? Is it possible? Or do I have to set up a new call to handle this.

    Your terminology is correct.

    However, CSDS does not yet know how to extrapolate "Like A Ripple".

    Therefore, you'll need to add a new snapshot record for each instance of "Like A Ripple".

    last modified: 14-August-2006   
  23.  
    Modifying calls #1
    Top of page Bottom of page
    How do I modify a call? E.g., "square thru 3, but on the 3rd hand, right & left grand"???

    In general, calls should be typed in as you would call it, however, since computer programs are not real people, they often need things to be a little more formatted.

    For the above example, you should say
     

    Square Thru On the 3rd hand RLG

    or

    Square Thru on 3 Right & Left Grand

    The program was confused because the number 3 occurred twice within the phrase.

    If you have a future question of how to phrase a specific call, send me another E-mail.

    last modified: 25-May-2011   
  24.  
    Modifying calls #2
    Top of page Bottom of page
    1. How do I modify, "Cast A Shadow" for instance, to have the centers turn 3/4 instead of the normal 1/4?
    2. Also, is there a source in the database for learning how to change calls in general?

    1. Cast A Shadow Trailing Centers Cast 3/4
    2. No, but perhaps I should start such a database.

      In general, however, that isn't necessary, since the CSDS program has a 'learn' feature that allows it to mold itself to the caller's style of delivery.

      When a unrecognized call is typed into the program, one of the following two messages will typically appear:

      1. "Parse problem - unknown tokens encountered" -- this means that the program can not determine what it is you're trying to say. This message can be caused by a typing mistake, or perhaps you have a different way of spelling the call. The message also appears when the program doesn't recognize the abbreviation that you used. In any case, you can add a new abbreviation, edit the abbreviation database, or edit the parse database (with perhaps a little difficulty) to resolve the problem.
      2. "Call not found in snapshot database, add it?" -- this means that you've typed in a call, but the program does not know how to do it from the current formation. This is either due to the call being illegal from the current formation, or to the fact that the program has never encountered the call done from that formation (such as Peel & Trail from a 3x1 T-Bone Box). In the latter case, press the 'Process or Add' button to add the call to the snapshot database, and the program will now know how to do that call from that formation.

  25.  
    Once Removed Split Counter Rotate
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Try the following sequence

    Heads Pair Off,
    Pass In,
    Touch 1/4,
    Once Removed Split Counter Rotate
    

    There is no snapshot for that call in my database. CSDS computes the call. I think the resulting setup should be parallel two-faced line and not a tidal line.

    Can you fix it or have I to build a snapshot ?

    From R-H Columns, the ending formation for a 'Once Removed Split Counter Rotate 1/4' is an As Couples R-H Wave. The call is equivalent to Follow Thru.

    The call you want is a 'Once Removed Counter Rotate 1/4'.

    From R-H Columns, the Once Removed formation is a R-H Box. From a R-H Box, a Split Counter Rotate 1/4 is an Arm Turn 1/4. That is, you split the box into two pieces (i.e., two R-H mini-waves) then do the call (a 2-dancer Counter Rotate) on each side.

    You can also get your desired result by calling 'Once Removed Box Counter Rotate 1/4'.

    last modified: 26-March-2007   
  26.  
    Outroll Circulate
    Top of page Bottom of page
    From Inverted lines with the boys on the end facing out, girls in the center facing in, I want to desiginate head or side men for an Outroll Circulate. What would the terminology be?

    Try one of the following:
    • Prefer the <end boy> For an Out Roll Circulate
    • Prefer the <side man> For an Out Roll Circulate
    • Prefer the <end belle> For an Out Roll Circulate
    I prefer the last case since it is more general. The dancers can do the call even if they've messed up and the side man is not on the end.

    Depending on your specific starting formation, the program may or may not have the appropriate snapshot record needed to do the call. You may need to add a snapshot record.

    Note: CSDS requires the word 'For' to be able to parse the 'Prefer' concept.

  27.  
    Parallelogram Shape-Changer
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Here's a position that ought to work, but doesn't. Trying to do a "Parallelogram Reach Out" fails, even though the 2 calls "Truck, Reach Out" work fine from the same position.

    Heads Wheel Thru
    Pass Thru
    Triple Box Pass the Ocean
    Triple Wave Ah So
    Parallelogram Reach Out

    CSDS does not do a Parallelogram Reach Out from the above position, Parallelogram Waves, as opposed to Parallelogram Columns, it because is not legal. There is no way to restore the 50% offset.

    If you believe otherwise, you can always force CSDS to do it, by creating a new snapshot record for that specific instance of the call.

  28.  
    Percolate But
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I'm trying to write choreo using Percolate But , where the anything replaces the hinge and cross.

    There's no problem doing it from parallel waves. I noticed that there's a snapshot record for Percolate But from parallel waves.

    But I can't figure out how to do it from other formations (e.g. facing lines or outfacing lines). I made a snapshot record for Percolate But from outfacing lines, but CSDS still doesn't extrapolate when I enter Percolate But (something else, like recycle). Is there some trick to making a snapshot record that's used in a parameterized call?

    Create a snapshot record for "Percolate But" by doing a Circulate 1 & 1/2, Outsides Any Hand Turn Thru. Then, set the Actives so that only the center 4 are Active. This will make them active for the next call.

    last modified: 27-February-2024   
  29.  
    Recycle
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Why doesn't Recycle work?

       Heads Square Thru
       Slide Thru
       Pass the Ocean
       Centers Trade
       Recycle..................I don't get what I expect a Zero Box:

    In all the sequences I've tried "Recycle" fails???

    The program executed the call 'Centers Recycle' (a C1-level instance) instead of 'Everybody Recycle'. This is because the centers were active for the last call.

    The program keeps track of the active dancers. For example, from a static set, if you say 'Heads Star Thru' then say 'Pass Thru', the 'Pass Thru' is directed to the heads (since they were active for the previous call), and not to all dancers.

    Anyway, to fix your problem, you have two choices:

    1. Whenever this problem happens, insert the word 'all' before the call. (i.e., use 'all Recycle' instead of 'Recycle').
    2. Disable the program from tracking the active dancers (this is the default). To do so,
      1. From the main menu, select 'Other' then select 'Option flags'.
      2. Click on the 'Call execution' tab.
      3. Check the 'Activate all dancers after each line' checkbox.

    The second choice is usually the preferred choice.

  30.  
    Same Jay
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Try the following sequence

    Heads Pass the Ocean Facing Jay Touch a Quarter Right Jay Walk and Dodge

    Here is the Problem

    Same Jay Trade and Roll

    If I Build a snapshot , this snapshot works always the same (the jay = the snapshot is build for)

    Any Idea ?

    'Same Jay' currently has no meaning for CSDS.

    The trick to get CSDS to execute a 'Same Jay' call is to use a continuation line. For example,

    Heads Pass The Ocean, Facing Jay Touch A Quarter, Right Jay Walk And Dodge (Same Jay) Trade And Roll

    last modified: 19-October-2006   
  31.  
    Sashay
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I've encountered a problem when doing a proofread. From normal facing lines of four I can't get "Centers Sashay" to work. It changes 'Sashay' to 'Sas' and a popup says

    Parse error(s) encountered:
    Line 5 has unkown tokens: SAS
       CENTERS SAS

    If I say "Centers Rollaway" it works, but I want to use the term "Centers Sashay".

    Can you help me with this?

    The 'correct' term is HALF SASHAY. The call 'Sashay' is not implemented in CSDS. It is a very old call, and basically amounts to a sideways dosado, equivalent to a HALF SASHAY Twice.

    For example,

    Heads Lead Right,
    Circle To A Line,
    Right & Left Thru,
    Centers Half Sashay,
    All Square Thru 3,
    1/2 Tag,
    Right & Left Grand

    last modified: 06-July-2020   
  32.  
    Semi-colons vs. Carriage returns
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I thought a semicolon was the same as a carriage return (and was a way to put different calls on the same line).

    However, from a starting DPT,

    "concentric touch 1/4 and roll" is the same as "concentric touch 1/4; roll"

    and is different from

    "concentric touch 1/4<carriage-return>Roll"

    So is a semicolon an "and"?

    Yes. So are spaces, commas, or other punctuation.

    The program internally does the following in the order shown below:

    1. Text within matching parentheses is removed;
    2. Commas, semicolons, colons, quotes, double-quotes, hyphens and other punctuation are converted into spaces;
    3. Multiple contiguous spaces are collapsed into a single space;
    4. The command line is converted into uppercase;
    5. Abbreviations are expanded;
    6. The command line is parsed;
    7. If the parse is successful, the command sent to be executed.

    To make "Concentric Touch 1/4" be one call and then execute a "Roll", use square brackets to force the program to interpret the phrase differently.

    The phrase "[Concentric Touch 1/4] & Roll" forces the Concentric concept to apply only to the Touch 1/4.

    As a default, the program interprets "<concept><phrase>" as if the concept applies to the entire phrase. That is, it's the same as 'Working <concept> do a (<phrase>)'.

    last modified: 25-May-2011   
  33.  
    Slant
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I was entering some choreo this evening and had a problem with the following:

    Heads Touch 1/4 & Spread,
    %Own The Girls%: Ah So By Mini Busy,
    Chain Reaction,
    Trade Circulate
    %Slant Touch & Wheel%,
    

    The error I received was:

    Unknown tokens encountered
    String parsed: SLANT TOUCH AND WHEEL
    Unknown tokens: AND WHEEL

    CSDS requires the 'BY' instead of 'AND' for the delimiter for 'SLANT'. In addition, you will need to be explicit for the 'WHEEL'.

    I.e., SLANT TOUCH BY WHEEL & DEAL.

    More calls and their delimiters: http://www.ceder.net/faqdb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=589

    last modified: 26-March-2007   
  34.  
    Solid CONCEPT
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I have been trying to write some C-2 sequences with solid. I don't seem to be getting any where.

    Any hints?

    CSDS does not know how to extrapolate the 'Solid' concept.
    Each instance must be entered as a separate entity with the snapshot database.

    There are, of course, many instances in the database, so most common usages of Solid are supported.

    General syntax:
    <someone/someformation> (work) Solid: All <call>

    1. The word 'work' is optional.
    2. The word 'All' is required if you wish non-designated dancers to also be active.
      That is, OUTSIDE TRIANGLE SOLID U-TURN BACK is different than OUTSIDE TRIANGLE SOLID ALL U-TURN BACK. In the first case, the very centers don't move, and in the last case, they do.

    last modified: 29-April-2011   
  35.  
    Some work <concept> All <anything>
    Top of page Bottom of page
    From right hand diamonds, have the centers face away from the center of the square:
       'Centers work Tandem All Right Roll To A Wave' didn't work right!
    The ends didn't move!

    The program does not yet extrapolate calls of the form:
       {anyone} {concept} All {anything}.
    Each instance of such a call must be entered as a separate snapshot record.

    To add this instance of the call after the program has already executed it incorrectly:

    1. Edit the sequence in graphics mode
    2. Use the F1 and F2 keys or the navigation buttons at the bottom of the screen to position the large dancer icons (the 'after' picture) to the position before the problem call.
    3. From the menu, select 'Flags' followed by 'Set all flags'.
    4. Press F2 to execute the next call.
    5. The program should display the 'Call Not Found, Add It?' screen which allows you to enter the call. You may have to click the 'Next' button several times until the correct 'before' position appears.
    6. After adding the call, be sure to 'Clear all flags'.

  36.  
    Spin The Windmill
    Top of page Bottom of page
    From a T-Boned setup as in
    Heads Pass In, Sides Quarter Out

    I wanted to say "Spin the Windmill"....
    I would call "outsides as you are" or "ahead on the outside"

    Couldn't do it... had to add the call. I feel very shakey doing that!

    I usually say 'Spin The Windmill Forward' or 'Spin The Windmill As You Are'

    If you wish to say 'Spin The Windmill Outsides As You Are', you must add a new record to the parse database. Ask if you need help. (I will save my response, and in a future upgrade of CSDS, the parse database will have updated).

    You can also say 'Spin The Windmill (Outsides) As You Are' if you wish to see the word 'Outsides' within the sequence.

    By the way, the program does have a few problems with Spin The Windmill, namely

    1. all the Spin The Windmill variations aren't necessarily entered in the snapshot database (I should probably modify the program to 'expand' the call);
    2. from a position such as Trade By, the call 'Left Spin The Windmill Right' might not behave as you expect. I forget whether or not the program assumes that 'Left' (interpreted as the 'Mirror' concept) also applies to the outsides. In any case, be careful if you apply the word 'Left' before Spin The Windmill.

  37.  
    Stretch anyone Kick Off
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Take a look at these two choreo snippets:

    Sides Split Square Thru 2 To A Wave, Split Circulate, Stretch Boys Kick Off

    Sides Split Square Thru 2 To A Wave, Stretch Centers Kick Off

    In the first example, the last call uses "Near 2 Kick Off" as part of the parsing. Why does this not occur in the second example?

    The program processes the first instance above correctly.

    The program is confused on the second instance because the call is illegal.

    From parallel lines, "Stretch Centers Kick Off" does not make sense. Stretch means to do the call on each side, then the two dancers on each side that are closest to the center line move across to the far center. Since the call "Centers Kick Off" requires a 1x4 (to identify Ends and Centers), each 1x4 does the call "Centers Kick Off". The new centers can not move to the other side because the 1x4 is oriented incorrectly for this to occur.

    last modified: 14-August-2006   
  38.  
    Stretch Counter Rotate 1/4
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I currently have a little problem with stretch counter rotate and stretch split counter rotate.

    Here my sequence in CSDS:

    Heads Star Thru,
    Double Pass Thru,
    Peel Off,
    Touch 1/4,
    Stretch Counter Rotate,
    Cross Roll To A Wave,
    Split Counter Rotate,
    Stretch Split Counter Rotate,
    Linear Cycle,
    Al (ends at home)
    

    The same sequence in SD has to be:

    HEADS star thru
    double pass thru
    peel off
    touch 1/4
    STRETCH split counter rotate
    cross roll to a wave
    split counter rotate
    STRETCH hinge
    linear cycle
    left allemande  (at home)
    

    i.e. CSDS: stretch counter rotate equals SD: stretch split counter rotate
    and CSDS: stretch split counter rotate equals SD/CSDS: stretch hinge

    I wonder which sequence is correct and why?

    The problem lies in a difference of opinion with the 'Stretch' and the 'Split' concepts. I have implemented these concepts in CSDS the way I believe the concepts work, SD has done it their way.

    Stretch requires a 4 (or fewer)-dancer call. The call is done on each side, and the resulting centers (preferably exactly half of the dancers on each side) cross the center line dividing the two sets of dancers, to end on the far side.

    From a 2x4, CSDS regards Split Counter Rotate as an 8-dancer call. SD probably regards Split Counter Rotate as a 4-dancer call.

    To do a Split Counter Rotate, CSDS applies the 'Split' concept to the overall formation, then each of the two groups does a Counter Rotate with respect to the center of their 'Split' formation.

    Hence, for Stretch Split Counter, CSDS behaves as follows: Stretch means do it on each side, so CSDS chops the 2x4 into two parts. Then each part does a Split Counter Rotate, which, from a Mini-Wave Box, would be done on each side (the Split concepts chops the Mini-Wave Box into two Mini-Waves, each of which does a Split Counter Rotate 1/4 - an Arm Turn 1/4).

    Similarly, you should call Stretch Circulate instead of Stretch Split Circulate; and Stretch Turn the Key instead of Stretch Split Turn The Key.

    In my opinion, SD is wrong with it's implementation of Stretch Split Counter Rotate. The correct call is Stretch Counter Rotate.

  39.  
    Swing Your Corner
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I'm starting to input singing call choreo. It doesn't seem to want to accept "Swing your corner" or "Corner swing" at the end of the sequence. How to write singing call sequences that end with swing your corner?

    CSDS Sequence Databases (with singing call sequences) can be downloaded from http://www.ceder.net/choreodb/csds_databases.php (at the present time, there are 171 Basic Singing Call seqs, 361 Mainstream Singing call seqs, 484 Plus, 161 A1, and much more).

    In response to your question. The problem is that "Swing" is an A2-call, so CSDS has a problem recognizing it. For CSDS to recognize a Singing Call "Swing", you need to say "Swing & Promenade" or "Swing Corner & Promenade". In other words, the phrase "& Promenade" must be on the same line as "Swing".

  40.  
    Those Who Can
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I came across a possible problem in the choreo part of CSDS.

    From a 1/4 Tag formation (with center 4 in a RH wave the outsides in standard couples). The command "Those who can, Pass Thru" works but rather than leaving the center 4 in a 2 face line it put a phantom or extra space between the 2 very centers and the ends of the center 2 face line so that the next command like Center 4 Wheel & Deal does not work.

    The arrangement seems to work OK from a 1/4 tag if the command is "those facing, Jay walk" or "designated dancers" pass thru. Then the center 4 end up in a 2 face line.

    Is this a bug or is there a better command I can use at Mainstream or Plus that would have the right effect?

    Use "Those Facing Pass Thru" instead.

    "Those Who Can Pass Thru" is problematic for the CSDS program, since

    1. Those in the center R-H wave can do the degenerative version of a Pass Thru (i.e., applying the ocean-wave/facing-couple rule from a R-H wave, a Pass Thru is just a Step Thru).
    2. CSDS can easily recognize Those Facing (it's an intrinsic identifier), whereas Those Who Can depends upon the call (e.g., Those Who Can Partner Tag, Those Who Can Jaywalk, etc.)

    last modified: 25-May-2011   
  41.  
    Two-Couple Squares
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Was two couple squares left out or just mistakenly omitted. A good concept to review for all levels. Like to see it returned in next update. Thanks for your continued work on CSDS best program by far.

    Two-Couple Squares (as well as 6-dancer rectangle, 3-couples, 12-dancer rectangle, 12-dancer hex, and two squares working together) are not part of the 'specialty squares' section of CSDS).

    The above mentioned options are available in the Sequence portion of CSDS.

    1. From the main menu, select 'Sequence | New [Graphics]';
    2. Select 'Database | New' to create a new sequence database.
    3. Give it a name, then the 'Sequence Database Properties' dialog box will appear.
    4. In the 'General' tab, the 'Dancers' field allows you to select the above mentioned options. I.e., for two-couples, select '4'.

    last modified: 24-February-2021   
  42.  
    U-Turn Back
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Using 1.14.04, I tried the following sequence:
    HEADS LEAD TO THE RIGHT
    STEP TO WAVE
    HEADS UTB
    ENDS PRESS AHEAD
    ENDS PRESS AHEAD (Yes again ... )
    CENTERS PRESS AHEAD
    BOYS UTB

    At this point - DIAGRAM HAS EVERYONE DOING A UTB

    If I use Girls UTB, it works OK!

    U-Turn Back is a hard call for CSDS, and it sometimes has problems with it. The problem stems from the fact that U-Turn Back is a 1-dancer call with a reference point. Normally, this reference point is your partner within the current formation...

    Anyway, without going into a lot of detail, suffice it to say then when CSDS incorrectly does a U-Turn Back, you will have to add a new snapshot record to correct it.

    Fixing this particular problem has been on my 'to do' list for several years, but it never seems to obtain enough priority for me to fix it.

    The particular instance of U-Turn Back listed above has been added to the (master) snapshot database.

  43.  
    Unable to do 'Heads Square Thru 4' (#2)
    Top of page Bottom of page
    I am unable to get 'Heads Square Thru 4' to work from a squared set. I've tried different abbreviations and typing the whole thing out. It comes back and asks me to create a snapshot for this.

    The quick fix is to say 'Heads move in' or 'Heads press ahead' for the first line of the sequence.

    However, the problem is that you have inadvertently set some of the execution flags. Execution flags are used by the program to determine how to execute calls. In this case, the program was unable to do 'Heads Square Thru 4' because they were in a disconnected box (in a 2x4 matrix) instead of a nice neat compact 2x2 box. And, you probably had the 'no extrapolations' and/or the 'no fuzzy matches' flags set.

    If you encouter a problem doing a call, first check the flags and make sure that none of them are set (i.e., checked).

    From the Edit Sequence [Graphics mode] screen, select the 'flags' menu option. None of the flags should be checked.

    From the 'Call Not Found, Add It?' screen, the flags are located near the lower right section of the screen. When checked, they are displayed in blue.

    In general, flags should only be checked when you are trying to force the program to behave in a specific manner, usually so that you can enter a specific instance of a call into the snapshot database.

    Also, the flags are always cleared when you exit the program.

  44.  
    Unable to do 'Double Pass Thru'
    Top of page Bottom of page
    In the Edit Sequence [Graphics] mode, I notice that when I select the call "Double Pass Thru" from either the "select call" list or type it into the box, it appears in text as being selected, but is not reflected in graphics, (dancer icons do not move) I was able to get around this by entering "once removed pass thru" which moves the dancer icons and allows completion of the sequence.

    Is there a way I can correct this, perhaps by renaming the call, any suggestions?

    Check the following:

    1. From the CSDS main menu, select 'Systems | Settings...'. Click on the 'Call execution' tab, and make sure that 'Activate all dancers after each time' is CHECKED, and that 'Try Center 4' is NOT CHECKED.
    2. From the CSDS main menu, select 'Sequence | Edit Sequence [Graphics]'. Go to the 'Flags' menu, and make sure that nothing under this menu has a checkmark next to it.
    3. From the CSDS main menu, select 'Parse Database | Edit Parse Database'. Go to the 'Find' menu and select 'Text String'. Enter 'DOUBLE PASS THRU' into the edit box then press the OK button. The program will search the parse database for 'DOUBLE PASS THRU' and display the first match. Press the F3 button as necessary to find the entry in which the text only consists of 'DOUBLE PASS THRU'. Verify that the corresponding handle list is '435'. If the handle list consists of some other number(s), then edit the list to say '435'. If there is no entry for 'DOUBLE PASS THRU 435', then add it.
    4. From the CSDS main menu, select 'Snapshot | View a record'. Go to the 'Find' menu, and select 'Find a record'. In the 'Exact match' tab, enter 'DOUBLE PASS THRU'. Now press the OK button. The program will search the snapshot database for an exact match on 'DOUBLE PASS THRU'. Press the F3 button as necessary to find the entry for DOUBLE PASS THRU that starts from a Single Starting Double Pass Thru formation (shown in the upper L-H corner). If found and the record is marked as deleted, then press Ctrl+D to undelete it; if not found, then you need to add a corresponding snapshot record (this is most easily done via Edit Sequence [Graphics]. Select (or create) a Two-Couple sequence database. Set up a Single Starting Double Pass Thru formation, enter the call 'DOUBLE PASS THRU', and add the record from 'Call not found, add it?' screen).

  45.  
    Zig
    Top of page Bottom of page
    Heads Star Thru & Spread
    all Pass Thru
    All ZIG

    How must I enter this line that CSDS will accept it? I don't want to say all face right

    CSDS treats the 'Zig-Zag' family as a set of 4 two-dancer calls:
    1. Zig-Zag
    2. Zag-Zig
    3. Zig-Zig
    4. Zag-Zag

    In the above instance, you need to say "Zig-Zig".


If you have a question that is not answered here, feel free to E-mail Vic at

https://www.ceder.net/faqdb/?section=1&category=4&show=all
03-October-2024 08:04:33
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